INT: You asked me some questions about who I am, and where I come from, and my family all of that, and now, now I read. And suppose I do a good job; what happens next?
AD: Well, I, if it's within the financial means of the movie, I say, "Let's cast that person, this is who we want." [INT: But if I, if I'm new for you, first time you're seeing me, and I, and I, you know, you had me read the part, will you... what, what might make you want to have me come on call-back? What would motivate you to bring me back?] Well, it's just, it's just how you resonate, how you, how you come, how you're going to fit in this whole- it's a meal. And these are ingredients in the stew. You know, and this is the right ingredient, it's the right person to, to do what I need to do to tell the story, to make the movie work, you know. You get excited, you want... it's, you know, finding that right component.

INT: Do you have doubts- second-guess yourself on smaller parts, I mean, you know, as you're doing the process, I mean, you, again, I'm being really specific.
AD: No, I, you know, sometimes for example you, you work with, say you're working in Louisiana and you know you're going to hire certain local people. So you meet a bunch of people in L.A. and you go, "Wow. I don't know, should I spend the money to fly that person down there and put them up?" versus "There's this great local person who could probably do the part," and you, you go back and forth between giving that person a break or finding, you know. So, I, I'm pretty clear usually about, you know, that I made the right decision and it's a balancing act. Sometimes it has to do with physicality. If two or three actors you really like, but you think visually, this person-- I always remember, a lot, what percentage of the world is going to see this movie dubbed? So that the pictures, and the quality that the actor conveys in terms of his physicality is very important also.

INT: With non-actors, how will you cast them? Because you work with lots of non-actors. Do you, do you actually ever ask them to read? Do you actually ever ask them to come in?
AD: Oh, yeah. [INT: And, so, how does that work? And have you found times when they, when you thought, "Oh, this Sergeant is fabulous, but when he came in, [makes negative sound]. Well, I think it's a, it's a couple of things. First of all, depending on what the part demands, if the person's actually got to read a speech and has got to stay word-perfect. That's one thing. But if you're dealing with musicians or cops or peop--, they're just so comfortable dealing with the public. And the question is will they be intimidated by the cameras and the crew and the other actors? Or the star? Or are they going to be able to stand right shoulder-to-shoulder and say, "I can deal with this guy, you know, this big star doesn't mean anything, I had to deal with this guy that had a gun in my face the other day."

INT: And how do you determine it? Do you, can you deter--
AD: It's, it's instinct. It's instinct. [INT: It is?] And you know, I just… you know how you, how you get comfortable. And, you know, I've probably had actors who, you know, clamp up and get nervous sometimes, and, you know, who are well-respected actors who can be more nervous than, you know, if they can't get something right. You just got to make them feel comfortable. You've got to bel-- you know, you've got to believe that you can create an environment, even if something bad happens, where you're going to be able to pull it off and get through the day.

INT: I want to talk about just some char-- some casting issues, if you remember how these guys ended up, if you can? Like, I'm starting with THE FUGITIVE only because Gary Busey just occurred. Did you read him?
AD: UNDER SIEGE. [INT: I mean, I'm, I'm sorry, UNDER SIEGE. Did you read him?] No, I don't think so. I don't remember. I just said, "Gary Busey should be this guy." And of course, Tommy jumped at that. [INT: Well, yeah, because he's, he's absolutely, I mean, I just-] Yeah. You know, that was interesting... Gary Busey, I gave him the book from the U.S.S. Missouri, because he was going to be the Captain, or the commanding officer. And, XO was his title. Chief XO, Executive Officer. And, so he looked at it and he came back to me and said, "Oh, I gotta dress up, I gotta dress as a woman." You know, I said, "Well, yeah, I remember STEWPOT and all that stuff from SOUTH PACIFIC," because they all dress up in these big events they have in the middle of the ocean, you know. So the studio said, "He's going to do it dressed as a woman?" I said, "Yeah, he wants to dress as a woman." "Well, you gotta shoot it both ways. Gotta shoot it both ways." I said, "Fine." So, we never even showed them the other version. I did one take on it because it was so outrageous. [INT: It's a great moment.] Yeah.

INT: I'm now looking at HOLES and Tim Blake Nelson. How did Tim, I mean, did you read him, did you just say, "I want this guy?"
AD: I had seen the Coen brothers [Ethan and Joel Coen] movie, what is it? [INT: O BROTHER, WHERE ART THOU?] AD: O BROTHER, WHERE ART THOU? You know, and I just thought, I was looking for visual, you know with Sigourney [Sigourney Weaver] being tall and Jon [Jon Voight] being tall, I thought Mr. Pendanski should be someone who was very visually different. And, you know, Tim's a Renaissance man. He's this crazy Jew from Oklahoma who knows Shakespeare and Volker Braun and he can do anything. And he was just so wonderful to work with, you know. [INT: Oh, yeah, he's, he is quite amazing.]

INT: Let me see if, the kids. Let's talk about how you cast the kids in HOLES. I mean, casting kids is--
AD: We just looked at a lot of kids. [INT: And how do you look at kids? Same way you look at-] Brought, we brought them in, met them, they read, different parts, it was a, once again it was, you know they, most of them had, knew the book before they came in, some didn't. Some had been in one high school play. Some kids had been into rapping, one kid had just gotten out of jail. You know, there were all tons of different stories and backgrounds to these kids.

INT: And, who was, were you working with a specific, do you work with a specific casting person, or is it--
AD: I've mostly worked with Cathy Sandrich and Amanda Mackey for probably eighty percent of the stuff I've done.

INT: And how many people will you ask to see for a part? Or does that depend?
AD: You keep looking until you feel that you've got some really good choices. [INT: Will they bring you at least ten for some part? Or where, where are you on that?] Well, we just kept looking at all kinds of young kids who were in this age group who had done-- we literally went out and found every high school acting coach and, you know, we wanted to, I didn't want all stage-raised actors. I wanted real kids. And, so we just kept plying and plying and certain came to the top, and we'd find three for one part that were sort of right, and then we had to make a decision between the sophistication or the look or the, or the accent, or wh--, whatever, you know, it was just, it's just constant referencing back and forth in your head of, of what's the, what's this composite team going to look like of kids.

INT: Would you put, did you put them together, do you put teams together?
AD: Yeah, we did a, we did a big audition. Where we had a table. We did a big scene, and we just kept replacing different kids at that table and seeing how they played against each other. [INT: And was that, did you, was that a day, or did you do a number of days, or do you remember?] One day. We did a whole bunch of different tests. We had, probably, thirty kids show up. We narrowed it down from hundreds to thirty, and then we did a bunch of screen tests that day. We shot different combinations of kids saying different parts, seeing how they played with Shia [Shia LaBeouf]. You know, Shia had the part. But, it was how the other kids were going to work together. And then after shooting that, I'd, I looked at the tapes and talked to my colleagues and we decided. [INT: Did you have multiple cameras when you shot that?] AD: Yeah. Probably two. [INT: Got it. For those kids.] Then on video.

INT: You've also cast little kids. Like the little kid in COLLATERAL DAMAGE, what do you do for the, when they're sort of not as articulate, or memory may not be their finest skill yet. How do you cast little ones?
AD: It's, it's also, you know, how comfortable they are in front of the camera. How comfortable they're going to be in, there was, Arnold had a son, a little son, and there was also the kid who was the, the son of the Colombians. Just how comfortable they're going to be, you know. Whether they feel they're, like they're, they're not going to be shy and keep their head down. You know, they're going to feel, you can talk to them, they'll look you in the eye. [INT: And, this is in a casting session?] Both, starting there and then maybe a little testing. INT: And when you do these tests you… these are video? AD: Depends. Usually video today, but we have shot film tests.

INT: In any film that you remember, has there been a part that was difficult to cast?
AD: Well, I think the woman in, the Francesca Neri character, who played the terrorist in COLLATERAL DAMAGE, that was tough. Because you wanted her to be exotic, and we wanted her to be a surprise, to have this great empathy, this great strength, and this political kind of commitment. And someone who was both beautiful that, you know, and, so that was a lot of elements there. And someone who spoke Spanish and Italian. [INT: And, did you have a bunch of choices, I mean, was just hard to find her?] It was, it was hard to find the person that had all of those qualities, you know. I think, it wasn't, but I mean, she seemed about, far and above the right person to do that part.

INT: If you were recommending how, to, let's say, a new filmmaker, a new Director, how to go about casting, what words of advice would you give them?
AD: Well I think, I think it's important to understand what your needs are in terms of the range the Actor has to have to play the part. And whether the person you're dealing with is going to be a contributing collaborator. You know, and be able to bring something more than you even thought about. [INT: Well, how would I find that out in a casting session?] You've got to ask questions, you've got to find out what their experience has been on the stage. What, how literate the character needs to be or not. What their life experience is, you know, whether they're going to be able to be physical if that's required. Are they going to be able to swim in a pool all day long without saying, "I can't take this anymore?" Whether they need to have a kind of lang-- sense of language for improvisation, and, and can bring something themselves to the table. I think it's very specific to the character and the part. It's instinct, it's reading people, you know, you've got to be a psychologist, you've got, you know, a Director's got to do a lot of different things properly. You've, you have to understand everybody else's job, but one of those is understanding what can be expected from an actor and what can't be expected from an Actor.

INT: You mention the word 'improvisation.' Will you do an improvisation with somebody in a casting session? Or have you?
AD: Yeah. [INT: And what k--, what will those kind of things be?] It dep--, once again it depends on the part, but I mean, but, you know, you know, "Talk to me about a, make up something about a, your frustration with doing this yesterday." You know. Not a lot, I don't th-- I think, I think I've seen actors take lines and deviate from them, and I've been happy with that. You know, I say, "Stay with the script, but also try your own version of it if you want to change something." Or an actor'll say, "Can I change this and this?" And I'll say, "Sure, go ahead."

INT: Let's move on to design. You've said one thing is that you really do like everything to… get, to be a real space. How do you work with your Designer? How do you even choose your Designer?
AD: Well, I've worked a lot with a close friend by the name of Maher Ahmad, who is, I met in Chicago when I was doing STONY ISLAND, he was at The Goodman Theater. Or, he was at Northwestern. And he's a Palestinian Renaissance man who's, who's not only a great Designer, but very organized. He works like he's an Associate Producer to me. He's incredible at keeping track of information. And we just have a really great rapport. He did HOLES with me, he did THE GUARDIAN with me. He also, he likes to learn how to build and invent and create stuff. I've worked with Phil Rosenberg very successfully on two pictures. Phil's, you know, just, both Maher and Phil are very intellectually, both have backgrounds in major universities in architecture and in design and theatre. So their, their range of, of architectural history and design is quite vast.

INT: Being a visual conceptualist, which you are, what will you, like, looking at HOLES, what would you have said, in terms of the design to this movie, will you have a conversation that is pre-visual...a conceptual conversation, or are you right away, "These are the things I see or would like to see or explore." How do you have, looking at that example...
AD: Well, HOLES was a film that, you know, it was difficult because we needed to find a place that looked like you had ten thousand holes in a desert, where it's burning hot. But we had to be forty minutes away from a hotel, because of the kids. So, first was, you know, "We don't want, can't afford to shoot in America, we, let's go look in Mexico, let's look in Australia, let's look in Canada." We couldn't find anything that had the right look, and the proximity to housing. So, Lowell Blank, who was one of the Producers, had done a real study of all the deserts, and you know, we came up with a place in California where we thought was perfect. The film needed contrast between that look and the European look, which should have been green and verdant and, you know, lush. And, the third look was the Texas look, which was a variation of the desert but more an idyllic small town. And we lucked out because the Disney Ranch offered us the cabins, for the kids' tents, and the mess hall, which was an old Eddie Murphy set that we digitally put the background in, of the desert behind it. And blocked out certain things. It was a, and we said, "This is an oasis here." And then it had a Western town, and then we were able to make Eastern Europe because we shot in the winter and it was green. And we watered some stuff. So, that was an incredible back lot for us, so between Cuddeback Dry Lake Bed, which was pretty grim, one hundred and thirty degree temperatures, winds thirty to forty mile an hour winds and dust storms, you know, and we had to really work at keeping those kids healthy and wet and salted and all that kind of stuff. But that was the look. We wanted these three different looks to it. And Bill Mesa who are, was my visual effects supervisor, did the, some of the lizards, some of the lizards are live, some are digital, but he put all the holes in. So we dug about four hundred holes. We had to figure out how to dig the holes and not hurt the Bureau of Land Management credentials and guidelines. And then digitally put in about nine thousand holes. In a few big wide shots, and things in the distance. So, that was a, that was a, a real challenge, but fun.

INT: Now, when you're working with your Designer, do you do references, photographs, pictures, do you start talking color, what do you, what, what's your dialogue? I get the practical dialogue you just had here, on HOLES, but what's the kind of dialogue?
AD: Well, I mean I think, generally I will have started looking at things related photographically, documentary-wise, you know. On [A] PERFECT MURDER, which Phil [Phil Rosenberg] did an incredible set, he knew much more about Manhattan life than I did. He had taught architecture at Yale University, and he started pulling out these floor plans for these grand apartments on the East Side. And we, we started looking at the layouts and I was, "Okay, let's move this doorway over here so I can see all the way down here." It cost me a fortune because when we finished the movie, I'd built a house. I felt so confident as an architect. But Phil really came up with the, the look and the textures, we just kept looking at stuff and talking about what kind of faux marble we would photograph and put on the floor. Worked very closely with Dariusz Wolski in terms of lighting so we could walk through the whole apartment without having to change lights, almost. And we built this big set in an armory in Jersey. And then Viggo's [Viggo Mortensen] location, his loft was a real loft in, in Brooklyn. In the, you know, by the harbor there.

INT: If you have a preference, would you always be on location in real sets?
AD: Yeah. As long as you could control the windows and the light and there was room to function so that you weren't slowed down by the logistics of the traffic and, yeah, I'd rather be on location. Studios are great but you, it's, you're not as in the reality of things. Now, for certain things where you're going to have long hours and you've got a lot of technical stuff and visual effects and you need to support everybody, it's good to be on a stage. But, I think that the reality of a location helps the story.

INT: Do you, with your Designer, will you, I mean you go on location scouts, will you, as you find a space, I mean, if you're looking for a house, let's say, or, well, I mean, let's look at COLLATERAL DAMAGE, you know, if you're looking for, there's a big, Latin, pink mansion that's there, I mean, how, how will that emerge, will you be saying, "I need a large," will the script already have helped you, I mean where's the visual dialogue that's going on to pick the spaces that you're now going to shoot?
AD: Well, I had been in Colombia, I had made a film in Colombia, and I remember these incredible haciendas that they had. And, we had scouted Venezuela at one point. And, so, we were looking for this big Station-Chief-type house. You know, some guy who had made a lot of money down there and was able to afford to live in that style. And so, you know, you find out where the richest people are who have all the polo ponies, and, and it happened to be in a town in the state of Veracruz. And, the house had everything. It had stables, it had grand hallways and we could shoot, you could do it for multiple reasons. A lot of it has to do with logistics, too. Not only does it have to have the right look, but you have to be able to get the company in and out of there. You have to have control over the environment so you, you can do what you want to do.

INT: In UNDER SIEGE, obviously we're on, they're some interesting spaces, I mean, obviously the ship is there, but you have that control/command center of where the military is, you know. That looks like it was a built set. How do you go about communicating to you-
AD: Well, it's interesting, it's interesting because we had to fight with the studio about that, you know. We wanted, we said, I said, "We need... In order for this to have importance, it's got to get to the highest levels of the government. The President and the head of the Pentagon, they have to know what's going on. They took over a battleship with atomic weapons. We need to see the world react." And unnamed studio heads said, "Well, just put it in a little office." I said, "No, you can't [unintelligible] it doesn't matter, don't, don't do that." Well, we wound up taking this, we shot in a, in a hangar in Mobile Bay, near Fairhope, Point Clear, Alabama. [INT: I know Fairhope.] And we took, we took this space and we just basically made a limbo set, and put some neon and some desks and Bill Kenney did a really good job with that; the Designer on that. And, just with lights and, and space we created this big, important place, which was the cut-back to what was going on. And I could shoot everybody around a round table. I designed that light so we could shoot three sixty [three hundred and sixty degrees] and not have to relight. We did thirteen pages of dialogue or nine pages of dialogue, like, in a day and a half, two days there, because we had no time and it was all people sitting around a table. And I needed to design the set so I could shoot quickly. And that was sort of based on STRANGELOVE [DR. STRANGELOVE OR: HOW I LEARNED TO STOP WORRYING AND LOVE THE BOMB] if you think about STRANGELOVE, that set.

INT: Have there been for you, times when, dealing with design, it's been a real challenge? Where you've gone through real changes and shifts about it?
AD: Well, it, in terms of like, when we did THE GUARDIAN, the logistics were so complicated, because we had to make a fishing boat, one of the sets was a fishing boat in a storm. And we had to shoot it in such a way so we could add the water and we could add the backgrounds. So, we bought a fishing boat south of New Orleans before Katrina [Hurricane Katrina] hit. And then Katrina hit and it was, it was already being worked on in New Orleans. We had to leave New Orleans and move to Shreveport, rebuild our tank. Now we're on a gimbal and the ship is moving back and forth like this [makes hand motions]. It's dangerous. And you're pouring tons of water on it and you've got to have the light from the helicopter, so, understanding what you could get done in a day, and what the first unit should do versus the plate unit should do, that was very complicated stuff. And it was dangerous. We had to know how to, you know, you don't get a lot of time to rehearse that stuff, to get all the bugs worked out. You have maybe a day.

INT: In the, there's an open explosion in COLLATERAL, where the child and mom are killed. That looks like it's a real location, but it's a complex set of explosions all the rest. Was this something that you and your Designer talked through? Obviously, obviously effects was in that as well, but I'm curious again about the, the nature, you know, "How're we gonna do this particular, major moment in the, in the movie?"
AD: We actually found a space that was Downtown Los Angeles that had been taken over b-- it was the old Union Bank headquarters. And somebody had bought that whole area and the street in front of it, so it was a street that we could control. Because we knew we were not going to be able to do it in a day. And we knew we needed a lot of control. So we designed, we found a location that would allow us tremendous flexibility and tremendous precautionary preparation to do that. And, it was complicated in terms of building a vestibule on that we could blow up and the glass and all the effects that had to go around it.

INT: Do you storyboard?
AD: Yes. I storyboard anything that's dangerous, anything with visual effects, anything that's complicated. I don't storyboard dialogue sequences.

INT: And in those storyboards, like even the one we were just talking about, COLLATERAL DAMAGE, are there storyboard artists that you like to work with? Will you have a number of Storyboard Artists work? How do you work with storyboards?
AD: Yeah. I, depending on the speed that things have to come up to be realized, a lot of time you need to storyboard to visual-- to get budgets for visual effects. So sometimes the Visual Effects Supervisor will bring somebody in that they like to work with. Other times they're conceptual artists, you just like the way they draw things. And I don't like it to be too comic-booky, I want the lenses to seem real. I don't want things drawn that can't be put on film the way I want to shoot them. You know, even though they may look jazzy to somebody. But we did a lot of storyboarding on the big action sequences for everything.

INT: And, how will you work with those? Will you, I mean, do you say, I mean do you sit and do some stick drawings yourself to sort of get them started. How does this...
AD: Well, I'll describe the sequence in terms of whether the camera is moving or not. Whether it's static. I always, like, I'm very concerned about context, that you ever, understanding where you are, so I like to fall back a lot. You know, I like aerials, I like wide shots to give you a sense of the, the terrain that the story's taking place in. And then there's a lot of detail that has to be done so that, especially if you don't have time to do insert shots, somebody else is going, you can break that stuff away and somebody else can do it later.

INT: So, if I'd been the Storyboard Artist, you just told me this, I then deliver you a series of drawings. What will you do with that? Will you comment and say, "You know, I need to add this, I want," I mean, how will you handle it?
AD: Well, it can be both. I can say, "This isn't necessary. We don't need to spend fifty thousand dollars on this shot, I've got it over here. I can use that same piece twice. You don't need to put it in again. Or, we'll just mark this one A/B, the same as A/B over here." They may come up with some ideas that'll inspire me. Some of the Storyboard Artists are wonderful and they, they'll give you kinds of reaction shots and other detail that you might not have thought of, had time to describe to them. And, you know, it's funny, I think there's a Storyboard Artist I worked with on COLLATERAL who became a pretty well-known Production Designer now. So, they're people who have great resources, you know. I respect the Coen brothers [Ethan and Joel Coen]. I think they storyboard everything. You know, and their films look very tailored and very organized. And sometimes I like that, and other times I've seen films by legendary directors and they look like they're shooting storyboards. It doesn't have a reality. You know, you're going a hundred miles an hour and the camera does this dolly-in. Well, you go, "How could that happen?" You know, rather than the reality of what a lot of cinema's become with this kind of shake, over, overly shaky cam that tells you, "Oh, it's really exciting, isn't it?"

INT: How do you, in fact, deal with the fact that since you are a Cinematographer, how do you hire and deal with Cinematographers?
AD: Lovingly. It's tough, it's tough. It's both a blessing and a curse. Because I understand what their needs are and what they're gonna need to do to make it look good. And at the same time, I can get frustrated. If somebody's spending too much time on some kind of a detail, then I go, "I'm never gonna see that," or "it doesn't matter to me," or "I don't have time to have you light that insert, let's move on," you know. So, it's a double-edged sword, you know. I've had some wonderful relationships with Frank Tidy and I worked together, I think, on four or five movies. He shot THE DUELISTS and we had a really good relationship for a long time. Steve St. John was my operator. I moved him up to DP [Director of Photography], he shot HOLES and THE GUARDIAN. Dariusz Wolski shot PERFECT MURDER [A PERFECT MURDER] and then went into the super strata of big movies and I, I haven't been able to work with him again, but he's great. Michael Chapman and I didn't get along real well in THE FUGITIVE, as people, but we got along well visually, you know.

INT: And how do you deal with your Cinematographer? Are you having a discussion about light itself? Are you having a discussion about...
AD: Yes. All the lighting is worked out ahead of time. We conceptually talk about the lighting well before we shoot. We pick a location, we know the source is gonna be the windows, we know we're gonna hang something on the roof. A lot of it has to do with both the look, and the speed of shooting. You know, I mean, I've gotten into serious confrontations where I've said, "I wanna shoot 360 [three hundred and sixty degrees]," and you get there and the gaffer's saying, "Well, no, we have to stop and turn around." I said, "That's not what we talked about," you know. And I know certain cameramen have given up things, for example, I know Tak [Tak Fujimoto] has shot 360 at times when he probably could have made it look better, but he needed to have the speed to shoot 360. And, you know, it's a give and take. And there are a lot of great young cameramen around today. When I started out, the transition from black and white to color was still sort of happening. And there were guys who're used to using big, hard lights, and didn't know how to soften things and everything was a big setup in one direction. "Stop. We're turning around." And then Connie [Conrad L. Hall] and Haskell, Connie Hall and Haskell Wexler and Roizman, Willis [Gordon Willis], and Owen Roizman, those guys got involved and it became much more real, lighting with practicals. You know, making the source of the light literally light the person, not sort of a 10k behind a bulb in the foreground. And you felt that. That goes back to the reality. So, the style I like to think about is a kind of heightened reality. [INT: How do you mean?] Well, you make it look very real, but then you sort of embellish it and make it warmer or scarier or whatever.

INT: In terms of the various looks and styles, there's, A PERFECT MURDER has definitely a kind of look, and a different kind of lighting than, let's say UNDER SIEGE has, or that, you know HOLES has. What are you saying, you know, from looking at just those three because I think they're very different. How are you communicating to your cinematographer so that you know, you've agreed that there's gonna be a feel, there's gonna be a kind of...
AD: I think, I think the feel you're talking about more has to do with the sets than the actual lighting. The lighting's very natural in all of them. It's usually a window-source lighting or lighting that's coming from practicals that should be in the room. Or, the light of the desert. For example, when we did HOLES, we realized we, there was no way we're gonna start filling in with arcs or big lights, it would be impossible. So we just said, "We'll go for the shadow and we'll deal with it later. We'll print it down or print it up." And I don't, there wasn't a digital negative, I don't think. And Steve did a very good job finding that balance between, we'd bring in a scrim once in a while, the fill here and there, but you couldn't do that much. And we found a stock, a FUJI stock that would allow him that latitude in that middle range. [INT: And particularly in that heat, in particular that much brightness, you really need some help there.] Right. And we tried to shoot against the sun. He always wanted to shoot back-lit. We tried to do it as much as possible. Sometimes it was hard.

INT: And when you're dealing with night stuff, what's your, what's your attitude about lighting at night?
AD: Well, justifying the source. Trying to justify the source. Yeah, I remember when I was a young cameraman I would see these night scenes where they'd have put a big moon gel up, you know, and they bang. "That doesn't look real... yeah, the moon, pretty bright sometimes. It really does look like that." You know. But, having practicals, having sources of things that are, like, in contrast, whether it's candles or flashlights or something that can be in conjunction with it. It depends if it's an urban story, and you can justify streetlights, you know. There's a lot you can get away with just in terms of accepting a kind of ambient light. But it's hard. Especially when you're in the middle of nowhere where there's supposed to be no light.

INT: Now you like multiple cameras.
AD: Yeah. [INT: How long have you been shooting that way?] A long time. [INT: Even early on when people weren't?] Well, I mean, when I did STONY ISLAND, we'd, Tak [Tak Fujimoto] and I had two cameras, we're shooting music. Twelve days of solid music covering a ten-piece band, you know you had to..."You roam, I'll roam. You take this side, I'll take that side." And a lot of times, especially with improvisation, a lot has to do with Actors. If you are shooting, and you're not gonna get it twice the same way, you want to be able to have coverage to cut away to. And it's interesting, you know, you think, "OK, here's the prime close-up. Now you get over here a little bit." Well, depending on the light, depending on the face, you know, depending on where the emotion gets thrown, you can't, you don't know where it's gonna be and I've probably wasted a lot of film, but I've gotten moments and angles and reactions that I wouldn't have gotten with one camera.

INT: And, are you usually putting them near each other?
AD: I can. It depends, if the cameraman wants me to put them near each other. [INT: Of course.] He doesn't want to light from two directions. But that depends once again, it all, it can look good from both directions, you think that this is the best look but then you find out, no, that looks better over here. Haskell [Haskell Wexler] always used to say to me, you know, he used to always like to sort of set the camera and he'd go off and grab his little handheld and grab all the scary, dangerous little bits that nobody wanted to rely on for a whole take. And those become the gems. [INT: Alright. Interesting.]

INT: I remember, you know, looking particularly at Connie Hall's [Conrad L. Hall] SEARCHING FOR BOBBY FISCHER, and I was so impressed because the idea of light that is hitting you versus light that's hitting me. Now, they're different. And a lot of people want to make, somehow, them similar, and the fact that they're different is what brings reality to the moment, so that, you know, if there were two cameras now shooting, I'm darker, so what? There's something about that that I find real stimulating. Now do you sometimes... Let's talk about moving camera because you certainly know how to use it and when to use it. What's been your understanding and do you have a principle about when you move the camera?
AD: Well, you know, it evolved I think. Because, when I started, you know, the only way to move the camera was sort of like handheld. You know, because otherwise you had big dollies and big cameras and you had to really track and it became mechanical and very kind of, it didn't have this kind of reality of being there. So, we got used to shooting handheld a lot; I liked it. It was fun, fast, get right in the middle of it. Then, Steadicam evolved. And that was a godsend for me. And, I loved it because you could, you felt like you were there, but it wasn't so shaky that it took you out of the moment. And, you could start designing sequences where you didn't have to cut. Where you, in one shot, you could follow somebody, it would go from a two-shot to a single and back around to an over-the-shoulder and you could, you became a choreographer, you really got to choreograph things in ways that would have been a nightmare with dollies and crews with planks and cables and stuff like that. So, I really became dependent on the Steadicam. And one of the most flattering things that ever happened to me was Babu [Babu, 'T.R.' Subramaniam], one of the ADs [Associate Director], associates on ER, said to me, you know, they studied THE FUGITIVE like crazy. And they, they, because all that Steadicam we did in the hallways of, you know, of our hospitals and stuff like that. It was all sort of predecessor to that thing and they just took it to another level. They would rehearse all day long for one shot, I think, you know.

INT: But one of the things I've noticed that you've done is… I mean, I may be wrong, about this, but it seems to me you're always got somebody in motion when you're using the Steadicam as a tool, as distinguished from the Steadicam...You know, some people can use it as a storyteller, meaning, "I'm gonna start on you and gonna move off and go over here and pick up somebody else." Other people use it, "If you get up and start walking out I'm following you and I may pick up Gina as she walks back in and then come right back," but... So I'm curious what you're...
AD: Well, I want, I think you want to be in the movie. You want to be there with them. You wanna feel like you're actually seeing, it's like, it's like you and I are walking together down the hallway, I'm seeing you moving, I want to be there. You know, and you get to be, you get to be in the first person. You get to be there with the actors that way.

INT: Now I've noticed that you will do both sides in a Steadicam. You'll follow them and you'll be in front of them. Is that just?
AD: Just because you can't, if you're gonna want to cut it, if you want to get in and out of something, you can't go static and then move, and static and then move, you want to, it's all gotta flow together.

INT: Talk about your homework, let's say, the night before shooting something. What's your homework?
AD: Well, I think, one of the questions I remember seeing was 'the night before shooting the first day.' [INT: Well, yeah, that is a specific one.] The first, the first day you're much more concerned, you know. I always, I always say, "When you start shooting, you know, the first day you've got to have everything worked out," you know, because everything's on the line. Did he make his day, is he late, you know, how are you gonna stay on schedule, is everybody gonna respect each other? And then after you start shooting for a while, it's like, "What are we doing today? Okay, I can accomplish that." Because the crew gets into a routine, they get into a groove. You can do anything. You can accomplish anything as long as you talked about it ahead of time. I basically, you know, I've, I've walked the locations a lot. I've read the script a lot. I've talked to my crew and my cast about it. And, you, you have a basic sense of how and where you want to shoot things from. And what's interesting about Steven Spielberg, plus, you know, I used to, I used to feel all of his stuff was overly-conceived, preconceived and storyboarded. And then later on he stopped doing that. He'd show up on the set, he'd set up the scene and he'd say, "Okay, this is how we're gonna shoot it." And I thought that was, I think he made some leaps in terms of his style. They were all very powerful styles, but I got more in the pocket of what he was doing when he got into this, especially with RYAN [SAVING PRIVATE RYAN], you know, and when he started doing that stuff. So, I think there's, once again, it's a, there a value to preconception, but you can't be God and dictate things all the time. Especially if you're dealing with weather and light. You know, you may go on location one day and you say, "Okay, we'll have the sun coming in," you're not gonna get the sun. No matter what you say. So you gotta rethink how you're going to approach the lighting and the shooting. But, I basically like to have a lot of choices. Come back to the cutting room with being able to shorten things, simplify things, fall back and get some space. And have a sense of where you are.

INT: I want to go backwards a little bit. Rehearsal time. Do you have, have you had any, and when you have it, how do you use it? Or have you wanted it?
AD: Yeah, well, I, of course you want it because, you know, "You aren't gonna be any dumber than when you started," as my high school driver's ed [driver's education] teacher used to say. But, we've had readings where you just read and you listen to the words and let Actors think about it and you can comment on things. We've had very technical rehearsals where you have to go and work out every single detail for safety reasons and for financial reasons. And you've gotta have people build things ahead of time to make sure they're gonna work. [INT: Can you give me an example of one of those?] Well, if you know, if you know that you have to build a ramp for somebody to walk up with a Steadicam, so you don't want to do it on that day, you've gotta have that ready. Or, if there's someone's going to be in a dangerous situation you want to build some kind of a barrier so they can't hurt themselves. So you need a lot of logistics for that. And then, also just, I think rehearsal is important just for the actors to get comfortable with each other, and to get into the milieu of what of what everybody else is bringing to the table so they can find their place in it and grow from it. And gestate with it. It's like, "Okay, here's the ingredients, this is the temperature we're gonna cook this thing, now go back and think about how you're going to be part of this."

INT: Now, have you had time where you've actually been able to, sort of, before shooting, actually rehearse certain scenes or certain, you know, I mean, just in terms of the Actor stuff?
AD: Yeah. I've done it on a Saturday. You could take a Saturday to go rehearse something you're gonna shoot that week, that Monday or Tuesday so that people have, you've worked things out and you understand the logistics of, when you're trying to especially save time and not do it on the set. [INT: And will this rehearsal be more about character and dialogue or will it even be about blocking?] Both. Both. You know, I think, I think Viggo [Viggo Mortensen] and Michael Douglas had a long six- or seven-page scene, the confrontation, you know, the "I'm screwing your wife" scene. And that was something where we had to, you know, figure out how, "We'll start here at the elevator, you'll walk through, and we want the art over here and he's gonna come in and sit, talk on the bed, look around," how we were going to make it have some motion and some evolution rather than back and forth, back and forth, you know. [INT: And did you then, was that rehearsal done on that set?] Yeah, we went to that set. We went to that set I'm sure. I mean, I don't remember the details, but I'm sure we had walked it and blocked it before that night.

INT: Did you do some rehearsal with, and how did you rehearse with the kids in HOLES? Or did you?
AD: Well, they went, they went into boot camp. They were in boot camp for two weeks. And Alex Daniels, who's the stunt coordinator, who's a wonderful guy, I said, "Alex, I want these kids calluses, I want them to be, I want them literally to build a five-by-five-by-five-foot-hole." And they didn't quite get there, but they, they, they did it and they lived, they, I think they stayed overnight a couple nights out in those tents and they started developing this rapport with each other and writing rap songs, you know and learning what the hierarchy of the cab-- the tent was gonna be.

INT: Did you do a similar kind of boot camp for the guys in THE GUARDIAN?
AD: Oh, yeah. [INT: And what was that?] They went through training. It was, it was scary. I was almost ready to say, "You can't, you're pushing them too hard." We, we had the Coast Guard Rescue Swimmer School guys, top guys in the Coast Guard. They had them out there. They'd get up at six in the morning, they were doing push-ups, they were running, and they had to swim. And, you know, Ashton trained for six months before he got there. He was in the ocean here, he had a special trainer, and, you know, and he, when he got there he says, "Andy, what are you doing to me?" I had Olympic swimmers on, who were part of the team and then a couple of Coast Guard guys, you know. And so then he was, and he hung in there. He had to... and he was good. He was good enough to be a rescue swimmer. [INT: Six months?] Yeah. [INT: Who knows they're gonna make a picture six months later?] Well, we knew. We knew. I mean, he started training for it, it was several months before, he knew he had to get in shape. He had another picture. I don't know what I was doing, we, it was a complicated prep to get the picture ready and Disney didn't have the money to pay for it until we were gonna start, we knew we were gonna do it, you know.

INT: Let's move from there to costume, which is interesting, wardrobe. How do you get involved with wardrobe and do you get involved with wardrobe?
AD: I do. [INT: And what's the process?] You know, certainly, the Designer brings ideas and everything, but I mean, like, a lot of my clothes are in movies. I mean, like, Chuck Norris's black sweater's the one I wore all through college. That kind of look, the parka my brother has in STONY ISLAND was what we got in, you know, there was a Chicago kind of Army Salvage, you know, stuff. Harrison's coat, the tren-- the gray, the green coat, you know. Um, the hat Tommy Lee Jones wears, and this, the hat Tommy Lee Jones wears in that scene after Eddie Bo, the big shoot-out in, by the steel mills there, you know, "I can't hear." That's the same hat the kid in STONY ISLAND's wearing. The sort of flaps, winter hat, you know. So a lot of it was this kind of Chicago look, the no bullshit, be comfortable look of being in a cold winter, you know. And then, Andy Garcia, when we did STEAL BIG he plays twin brothers. The polo player and the man of the land. And he had, he had, His father had a small farm in Cuba. And he, he remembered certain things about, he wanted the same Jeep, you know, and they way the hat was worn, and things like that that came out of that background. But, I'm not a, I'm not a real aficionado on fancy clothes. And I've worked with, you know, people who are, who know that, know how to make a man's suit look great, and what colors, and I'm sort of, I'm a little re- the actor's comfortable and I like the way the look, I'm very sensible about colors and shine and all that stuff, but, I'm not a real clothes-horse.

INT: The hat that Schwarzenegger wears [in COLLATERAL DAMAGE], do you remember how that, when he's down-
AD: The Panama hat. [INT: Yeah. Where did that emerge from?] Well, it's just what people wear down there, you know. And he was, he cross--, he had to cross over from the Darien Gap. You know, you gotta go into Panama and come across. In Panama you need a hat.

INT: Have you worked with similar Costume Designers? I mean, have you been consistent with that?
AD: Aggie Rodgers did THE FUGITIVE. And she did HOLES. She's a gas to work with. [INT: Because?] She's just a lot of fun. She's a real character, a hoot, she loved the kids. You know, and a lot of, they mother the kids, you know, and they get involved in all the little gossip that's going on, you know. That's your, that's your big intelligence officer is your costumer. You know, "What's being said in the make-up trailer? What's being said in the hair trailer?" And then Jodie Tillen did STEAL BIG and she, I had worked with Jodie as a cameraman on all my Corman movies. She did MIAMI VICE, she came up with that whole MIAMI VICE look years ago, Don Johnson and everything. And, I'm trying to think who else.

INT: Gee, we forgot to mention Don Johnson. You just worked with Don, not just, but you worked with Don Johnson?
AD: Yeah, I loved working with Don Johnson. [INT: Had you worked with him before?] No. And he was incredible. I thought, "Jeez, I got Marlon Brando here." [INT: You got a performance from him, at least in that pilot, he was so funny. I had no idea he had even had that in him.] Yeah. [INT: Did you?] I'd never worked with him before. You know, and I hadn't seen all the MIAMI VICE. He's this real, he's a good Actor, you know. And same thing with Voight. There was a "Jon Voight's not funny." Well, he's pretty funny in HOLES, you know. Actors have a lot of sides to them. You get pigeon-holed like Directors do and writers do, you know. There, there are Actors who can do all kinds of things, but because they haven't had a chance to do it, you know? Jim Tyson, yeah. Jim Tyson did THE GUARDIAN and COLLATERAL DAMAGE and he was a, he's a real men's costumer. He knows about uniforms and, and we had to develop stuff where the helmets and the mics worked and, so there's a lot of technical stuff with that.

INT: In, let's talk about working with ADs [Assistant Directors]. Particularly in the kind of productions you have, you've gotta have really, really good ADs.
AD: Really good ADs [Assistant Directors]. [INT: And, what makes a good AD?] Well, it's just someone who has a grasp of the whole thing. You know, the first priority is, is safety. Treating people decently with respect. Having a good staff. Anticipating what's gonna happen next. Being flexible. You know, being able to allow you, the director, to change his mind or deal with stuff. I mean, directing is a cross between being a general in an army and being the circus leader, running a three-ring circus. And you need a staff to do that. And ADs are just, you know, they deal with the scheduling. They have all kinds of rules and regulations that they have to think about that you don't, which has to do with kid labor and how long they can work. Meal penalties. Drop and pick-ups. You know, there's all kinds of issues that they have to understand that you, you know, you don't worry about. At night, you know, they're thinking about getting everything up and cranked and reminding this guy. And working with a Producer who was an AD is important. My line producers have all been ADs. And they've, you know, run big productions and understand logistics. And, it's having patience, too. You know, it's, it's knowing how much time the visual-effects, special-effects guys need to get things ready. And, you know, letting you know, "You can't, we can't have you over here 'til ten o'clock. We won't be ready for you. So we gotta fill this time in over here." Or knowing how to work with all the personalities, too. You know, how to, how to be kind to the Actors and sweet to the Actors, but also know when they're pulling your leg.

INT: And have you had some, ones that you've used repeatedly? Assistant Directors?
AD: Yeah. Yeah, I've worked with the same guy who did UNDER SIEGE did THE FUGITIVE. The same guy who did HOLES did THE GUARDIAN. You know.

INT: What about their working with background artists? And do you have them sort of help choose who's going to be those roles or are you in fact--
AD: I cast the extras. [INT: Let's go back to that. Talk about casting extras.] I, when I can. When I can I try to cast the extras. Only, I mean, I don't meet them. But I'll look at three hundred pictures and I'll go, "OK, this guy, this guy. This guy's the guard. This is the convict. This is the this." You know, and I'll sort of look at it in that way. And I'll remember when I get to the set that I chose those people. And sometimes I'll even give them lines. You know, if it's necessary. But I'm, I think, you know, one bad extra can ruin a scene. You know, so you try to have as much input as you can. Now, I'm amazed how good the AD [Assistant Directors] staffs have been giving them business. Keeping them moving. You know, getting them in and out of scenes, 'cause I have a lot of, I've done a lot of movies with a lot of people moving around. And, it's, it's an art. It's a real talent. You know, I don't, you know the sad part is, oh god, I think I heard a statistic that the number of ADs [Assistant Directors] who actually collect their pension is, like, ten percent. ADs don't live a long time. They're the ones who are the most stressed, and the most put-upon, and the most, you know, they work hard and they aren't compensated for what they really do. [INT: No, it's true. It is true. Except for the ADs that become Producers. Then they live a long time.] Right, right. There's light at the end of the tunnel. [INT: Right, but you have to change the job.]

INT: Do you, do you turn to them to do background action? Will you watch it? How will you communicate if you've got a couple hundred people in a scene, what's happening? Will you say, "I need this area dealt with?" I mean, how do you handle it?
AD: Well, let's say we have a scene and there's an aftermath scene. And you've got ambulance drivers and cops and press and onlookers and you just try to divide everybody up ahead of time, and you say, "Okay, how many of these?" And I'll just say I'll close my eyes as a journalist, "This is what I look like, this is what I think we need." And they'll, they'll fill it in, you know. "Let's get a lady with a dog," and you know, you work with that. You know, or like, a western street. You know, you've got the guy coming in selling the apples and you've got the woman who owns the bakery and you've gotta just try to figure out how to dress them and give them business to do and make the scene feel real.

INT: When you're in COLLATERAL DAMAGE, where there's some marketplace kinda scenes, if I remember correctly?
AD: In Mexico, yeah. Colombia, yeah. [INT: Were those extras or were those the real - were you just there? It had that feel, with the guys dealing with fish and whatever it is. I just--] Oh, that was in Alvarado. That was a real market. And we had some of ours, and some were just real people. Yeah, it was a blend. But we had to have control. [INT: Got it.]

INT: Talking about budget, because that's one of the things you do with AD [Assistant Director], how do you handle budget and where does your brain get involved? Are you seeing it early on?
AD: Oh yeah. Well, time is money. And every, every creative decision is a financial decision. And, so those two things are constantly struggling with you. You know, the sad part is today, I'll go back to the question, but the sad part today is the budget, the movie budget is only a small part of it. 'Cause the marketing budget has become more important than the movie budget in some ways. You know, I would love to make a five- or ten- or fifteen-million dollar movie, but who's gonna spend the thirty million dollars marketing that movie? Which is what it takes today. I think about day costs, you know. I know, you know, if it costs a hundred and twenty thousand dollars a day to shoot, two hundred thousand dollars a day to shoot, fifty thousand dollars a day to shoot. And think of it that way. How much prep, visual effects, post production? What is your above-the-line gonna be in terms of how much you've got invested in that big talent. The script, you know, the producers, your director fee, you know, all, there's all this, how does it relate to what you're going to be able to put on the screen? And, I think a lot of times you get frustrated because you know there's certain times of the day we need six people to do the shot, but you have ninety people sitting behind you. One of the biggest problems is getting people out of the way, with this fleet of trucks we have now and all, and so I, I yearn for the small, little movie. Where, you know, when I was an assistant cameraman, we had an Arri BL and three lenses and two mags and two cases - that was it. There was no video. There was-- you could literally run and gun and put it on your shoulder. And now, you have a truck just for the video and the sound, you know. And you have a truck for this and so budget has a lot to do with all the circus, the moving of the army. And, you know, I mean, it's problematic because, used to be, we're shooting the movie union in Hollywood. Now it's, where else can we go? How do we do it non-union? How do we get tax money and, you know, you have things dictating to you that aren't necessarily interest- in the interest of the movie as to where and why you're gonna shoot something.

INT: And when you're actually looking at a budget and you suddenly see this day, when will you make the compromises? What will you say? Will you say, "You know, I can do this in one day and I thought I was doing two? No, I need to have this many people in the street. We're not gonna pull that back." How do you deal with, you know, the budgetary issues?
AD: It's, you know. You've got so much money, how're you gonna spend it? What are your priorities? I generally don't like to scrimp when there's anything that has to do with lots of coverage or danger. You know, when it's a big visual thing. If it's basically people talking to each other and dialogue, there's not much you can do other than get good actors and get a good script. You know, you're not gonna reinvent the way to shoot it. And if you have the proper elements there, you can, you know, there's no problem. And also, it's designing sets and locations to where you can move easily in and out. You don't get hung up taking four hours to light a set that should take, be ready when you get there.

INT: Have you moved into, in scheduling on a budget, do you like to try to schedule things in any particular way?
AD: Well, I'd rather shoot chronologically whenever possible. We shot almost all THE FUGITIVE chronologically. Because Harrison had a beard, first of all, so that helped. But, I just think it helps evolve the movie. You just have to start on the first day with the last scene of the movie, it's pretty tough. And you also want to start off with something that has some substance, but is not overpowering. And I do get very involved in scheduling, in terms of, you know, the order I want to shoot things in each day. You know, where we're gonna start. It has to do with, once again, logistics and clearing out corridors and now we're done on the corridor, we can move the equipment here, we'll be in the room all day long. Or wanting to get the shot outside of the house the same day, but the trucks are there, and how you're gonna deal with that. You know, when are you gonna move in? Are you going to have to go back with another unit to do it and not have all the things you really want there, you know. So, having been a cameraman was really valuable. [INT: Sure, no question.] Really valuable in terms of understanding what the issues are and what can get in your way.

INT: You know, it's interesting. I was thinking about, I've been caught twice where the last day of shooting was the last scene of the movie. That's a disaster. I don't know if you've ever been caught in that one, but you know, you certainly don't want to start with it, but you don't want to end with it either. Because, if there's something wrong, there's something you need to do, it's too late.
AD: I'm trying to remember. I think THE FUGITIVE we ended, well, we almost ended on the last day of shooting on the last scene of the movie. And Joey Pants [Joe Pantoliano] kept saying to me, "Andy, you gotta keep me alive. Harrison wants me to die, but you gotta keep me alive." So I said, "Shhh." So we put him on a gurney off to the side and he survived that thing hitting him [in the head] and then he got the sequel, got a lot of money for the sequel. "Ten percent, Joey." [INT: Really, exactly.]